Toei Dragon Ball Speed Adjustment

[Qawsedf234]

This staff thread has been accepted. With it comes a much harder definition of what travel speed is

If a character travels or flies very fast through a very empty terrain, in which it doesn't necessarily have to react to sudden obstacles, the speed in question is travel or flight speed, but not necessarily reaction speed. In order for it to also be reaction speed, and the speed in total hence applying to the character's combat speed, the character either must have demonstrated the ability to react to sudden obstacles while traveling at this speed, have a calculation made that supports the character having corresponding reaction speed/time or otherwise demonstrate having comparable reactions.

Simply being able to stop accurately at the target destination does typically not qualify, as it can be spotted from a large distance to make preparations to stop or the character could even slow down before reaching the destination, assuming we only know the average speed with which they moved.

The Feat

Pikon and Goku fly to Hell in Episode 195 of Dragon Ball Z. The entire sequence is off screen and there's no indication that they had to react to anything from Point A to Point B.

As such is their evidence that this feat actually scales to their combat speed?

 

[sanicspood]

im pretty sure in dragon ball it actually does

 

[Qawsedf234]

pretty sure in dragon ball it actually does

What's the reasons for it?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Uh, yeah. Ki inherently affects all stats, including physical attributes. It's stated numerous times that Ki is the derived from the body, is linked to stamina, and passively augments the strength and speed of the wielder when the body reaches its limits. Vegeta also confirmed that strength and speed simultaneously, meaning that even travel feats scale to these characters' other speed ratings. Characters also react to each other flying all the time.

 

[Qawsedf234]

It's stated numerous times that Ki is the derived from the body, is linked to stamina, and passively augments the strength and speed of the wielder when the body reaches its limits.

None of that is evidence that travel speed wouldn't apply to this feat. You're just describing how the power system works

Vegeta also confirmed that strength and speed simultaneously, meaning that even travel feats scale to these characters' other speed ratings.

He said when you get stronger you also get faster. That's not evidence that their combat speed is equal to their flight speed though, just that with more strength comes more speed.

Characters also react to each other flying all the time.

Not in this feat. Its entirely off screen and fits our example to a T

 

[Bernkastelll]

What's the reasons for it?

DB characters can fight while flying, it already is shown a lot of times

 

[Orange]

Characters outpace each other while flying [freeze vs krillimg and gohan comes to mind] they outpace their own or others ki blasts [raditz outrunning the kamehameha, goku reacting to his own kamehameha, goku dodging cells blast, freiza dodging vegeta's barrage], the fight while flying at top speed [goku and frieza's first clash too]

 

[Bernkastelll]

Characters outpace each other while flying [freeze vs krillimg and gohan comes to mind] they outpace their own or others ki blasts [raditz outrunning the kamehameha, goku reacting to his own kamehameha, goku dodging cells blast, freiza dodging vegeta's barrage], the fight while flying at top speed [goku and frieza's first clash too]

Beerus and Goku clash in outer space as well

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Dragon ball characters' combat speed scale to their own flight speed. I thought this was common knowledge already.

 

[Orange]

Beerus and Goku clash in outer space as well

Yeah, also goku outrunning the frieza explosion bomb.
The best feat are raditz outrunning the kamehameha
Frieza out pacing gohan in that rock thingie [when he played catch]
All the infamous clashes.
It should be a common knowledge by now

 

[Orange]

None of that is evidence that travel speed wouldn't apply to this feat. You're just describing how the power system works

He said when you get stronger you also get faster. That's not evidence that their combat speed is equal to their flight speed though, just that with more strength comes more speed.

Not in this feat. Its entirely off screen and fits our example to a T

We literally see them regularly outpacing each Others ki blats, outrunning people, fighting in mid air, mid air collisions etc...

 

[DivineAura44]

Character = Movement Speed >/= Travel. Or atleast I think thats how it works.

 

[Orange]

Actually, I would like to use this thread to upgrade their speed, since most scales above the 4.2 quadrillion feat that was done in base.
With ssj1 it should be more than that.
But I guess the GT thread is taking care of it

 

[Qawsedf234]

DB characters can fight while flying, it already is shown a lot of times

That's besides the point. This feat is a clear example of travel speed. What proves that this can be useable for combat speed? All I'm getting is "Its common knowledge" and references to other things that are irrelevant to the main point.

 

[Bernkastelll]

That's besides the point. This feat is a clear example of travel speed. What proves that this can be useable for combat speed?

Because they can fight while flying, which means that their flight speed scales to their combat speed, thats what i was talking about

 

[DivineAura44]

That's besides the point. This feat is a clear example of travel speed. What proves that this can be useable for combat speed? All I'm getting is "Its common knowledge" and references to other things that are irrelevant to the main point.

Pretty sure they can react to the speed of the others flying and hit them during it. Also isn't combat speed usually faster anyways?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Because they can fight while flying

So can Superman and Captain Marvel, but both have dedicated travel speed ratings because they fall under that category. This feat is no different.

react to the speed of the others flying and hit them during it.

You would need evidence that they're moving that fast in that scene.

 

[Bernkastelll]

So can Superman and Captain Marvel, but both have dedicated travel speed ratings because they fall under that category. This feat is no different.

Go complain about DC/Marvel standards then, and I already saw people complaining about it, anyways, in DB, they can fly while fighting, which is enough to it scale to their combat speed as well

 

[DivineAura44]

You would need evidence that they're moving that fast in that scene.

NGL seems like your taking the higher assertion here. Why wouldn't they be? There's no reason to assume (especially when they're flying to a destination asap) they wouldn't be at top speed.

 

[Orange]

That's besides the point. This feat is a clear example of travel speed. What proves that this can be useable for combat speed? All I'm getting is "Its common knowledge" and references to other things that are irrelevant to the main point.

You: you guys don't explain why it scales to combat
Also you: ignore the instances were characters outpace each other in flying, fighting, clashing, and bliztimg mid air, constantly reacting to ki blasts and outrunning them.
Characters outpace each other whole lying: Frieza outpacing gohan while flying.
Fighting, dashing and blitzing wach each other while flying: first clashe between freiza and goku, clash between vegeta and and goku, goku outrunning cell's ki blast mid flight, goku using after images and outpacing cell mid flight, broly chasing after goku and vegeta.
Constantly reacting to ki blasts and reacting to them: raditz outrunning the kamehameha, freiza casually outpacing and dodging vegeta's ki blast while flying, goku outrunning one of freiza explosion balls.

 

[DivineAura44]

Anyways their ki blast scale to flight speed and they can dodge each others ki blast. Also isn't Combat Speed > Travel Speed?

 

[Orange]

NGL seems like your taking the higher assertion here. Why wouldn't they be? There's no reason to assume (especially when they're flying to a destination asap) they wouldn't be at top speed.

No no, ofcourse fighting at full power, with the earth on danger, and basically your life on the line you would obviously not use your full speed to save yourself from hard situations duh

 

[SirAlex09]

So can Superman and Captain Marvel, but both have dedicated travel speed ratings because they fall under that category. This feat is no different.

You would need evidence that they're moving that fast in that scene.

In contrary to most comics Combat speed in Dragonball is much faster than Travel speed than the other way around.

Both are a product of Ki and the show has shown REPEATEDLY that you need more Ki to achieve the same speed in Travel speed as you do in Combat speed. ( Example Goku flying slower than Mach 1 in early DBZ while his own combat speed is massively Hyper sonic)

While speed scales 100% with Powerlevel meaning that if you increase your PL 2x with Kaioken you get twice as fast in combat speed, Travel speed doesn't benefit from the same increase. The increase is less ( Example Piccolo's moon feat was 0,7c while a far stronger Goku with a much higher PL crossing Namek was slower)

With that being said the conclusion is that with what the show has shown : If you achieve speed X , your combat speed is >X because combat scales better with your Ki level.

Also Dragonball characters get slower the more they fly because most of their momentum comes from their jumping and kicking the air motion at the start of the flying sequence ( in contrast to Superman who accelerates gradually to reach unimaginable speeds and gets increasingly faster)

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The Daizenshuu 7's Special Attack Dictionary confirms that "The speed the user moves through the air with it is related to their level of skill and the size of their ki", and explicitly states that Flight is accomplished by simply focusing Ki to beneath one's feet in order to defy gravity.

"It's a basic ki manipulation technique, on par with the ki blast. Anyone can do it merely be learning how to use ki, as seen with Videl", "It's just a matter of controlling Chi, so it's not too hard," "You have to be able to control the flow of Chi at will", and "This technique allows one to race through the sky through manipulating the ki inside one's body" all confirm that Flight simply requires that the user be capable of controlling Ki on the simplest level of mastery. Essentially, this means that there is no high-level technique that boosts speed involved; otherwise, Videl would be out of luck, because she has not even mastered Ki enough to produce energy blasts or even kiai attacks like Spopovich has.

So, flight speed scales to the size of one's ki (i.e., their Power Level), and that Power Level also ties into strength and combat speed. Even if you do not buy the velocity of Flight and the character's punches being identical, then there is the obvious point to make that the speed of Flight and the speed of other Ki techniques, such as basic energy blasts, are identical, and characters react to those, sometimes even outspeed them, on a regular basis.

 

[DivineAura44]

In contrary to most comics Combat speed in Dragonball is much faster than Travel speed than the other way around.

Both are a product of Ki and the show has shown REPEATEDLY that you need more Ki to achieve the same speed in Travel speed as you do in Combat speed. ( Example Goku flying slower than Mach 1 in early DBZ while his own combat speed is massively Hyper sonic)

While speed scales 100% with Powerlevel meaning that if you increase your PL 2x with Kaioken you get twice as fast, Travel speed doesn't benefit from the same increase. The increase is less ( Example Piccolo's moon feat was 0,7c while a far stronger Goku with a much higher PL crossing Namek was slower)

With that being said the conclusion is that with what the show has shown : If you achieve speed X , your combat speed is >X because it scales better with your Ki level.

This is what I was trying to say except I'm pretty sure its universally lower.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Or you know, here is a video showing Goku and vegeta flying away from a ki blast thrown by kid buu. Which proves that combat speed scales to flight speed.

 

[DivineAura44]

Unless valid arguments (not whataboutisms that don't even apply) are shown from the opposing side (the one making the downgrade), its pretty clear cut they scale.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

This thread should be closed, to think that people in 2021 still don't know that flight speed scales to combat speed in DB kind give me a headache

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

This thread should be closed, to think that people in 2021 still don't know that flight speed scales to combat speed in DB kind give me a headache

Don't be mean to qawhfjsibdj234, you should give him the benefit of the doubt, he may not be experienced in dragon ball stuff.

 

[SirAlex09]

Don't be mean to qawhfjsibdj234, you should give him the benefit of the doubt, he may not be experienced in dragon ball stuff.

his last CRT:
Smallville MFTL speed downgrades
MCU speed downgrade
Legends Starwars MFTL Speed downgrade

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

his last CRT:
Smallville MFTL speed downgrades
MCU speed downgrade
Legends Starwars MFTL Speed downgrade

This is hilarious, but I think you misspelled his name.

 

[SirAlex09]

This is hilarious, but I think you misspelled his name.

I copied it from your comment lmfao XD Too lazy to scroll

 

[DivineAura44]

I mean his name is easy minus the fact it's qawsedf and not qawsedr.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I mean his name is easy minus the fact it's qawsedf and not qawsedr.

Eh I was close enough. I think.

qawhfjsibdj234

 

[DivineAura44]

Anyways Qawsedf are you going to make counters to
1. My point about them dodging ki blasts which scale to their travel speed
2. Sir's point about Travel Speed being lower.
3. Fluffy's video evidence
4. Null's Daizenshuu scan
because if not this is just about over.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, I disagree with the OP. Dragon Ball is very linear that all characters tend to have combat speed at least as good as their flight speed. Take Snake Way for example and how poor that speed is despite having combat speeds much greater than that. Also, if they use Ki flight, they can body slam with just as much speed and their punches and kicks are yet faster than that normally.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

This thread should be closed, to think that people in 2021 still don't know that flight speed scales to combat speed in DB kind give me a headache

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah, I disagree with the OP. Dragon Ball is very linear that all characters tend to have combat speed at least as good as their flight speed. Take Snake Way for example and how poor that speed is despite having combat speeds much greater than that. Also, if they use Ki flight, they can body slam with just as much speed and their punches and kicks are yet faster than that normally.

Wholeheartedly agree with this.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Sorry for the super late reply I was busy with some IRL stuff.

Go complain about DC/Marvel standards then

I have multiple times in fact: I've done it for Image for the Invincible profiles rework / Marvel / DC / and Star Wars

This is just another one that I saw and brought up, because it fits our criteria for Travel Speed

There's no reason to assume (especially when they're flying to a destination asap) they wouldn't be at top speed.

That's the point. They're given a long time to accelerate and it meets our standards for Travel Speed. Why should this back scale?

Also, if they use Ki flight

The point I'm making is what evidence is there that combat speed scales this way? The issue with the other threads I've made is that in all but one there's zero indication of stuff and in the one example where it wasn't they had clear cut combat speed calcs unlike here.

Is there a hard statement saying they can fight faster than they can fly? Because the feat in question meets our standards 1:1, its on the profiles to prove that its useable for other things.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Is there a hard statement saying they can fight faster than they can fly? Because the feat in question meets our standards 1:1, its on the

"The speed the user moves through the air with it is related to their level of skill and the size of their ki"

Is that not valid?